Lanterns finale: Kyle Chandler and Aaron Pierre talk about that twist
I am delighted to be here today with Kyle Chandler, who plays Hal Jordan, and Aaron Pierre, who plays John Stewart. Guys, congrats on an awesome finale and an awesome season.
I want to open with a question that's for both, and it's about Lanterns being a love story, which is what it wound up being, you know, at the end of the day, in a really deeply moving and affirming way. By the time we hear Hal and John say, I love you in the finale, the season has taught them and us as viewers alike that you can't make progress together if you're not doing the work individually, but also that you can't truly better yourself as a person individually without opening yourself up to other people and seeking help from other people. So I'm curious if that felt true to both of you in a meta-sense as way as performers, both with each other and with the other sterling members of this cast and this ensemble.
Aaron: I think this isn't a simple question to answer. I think it's, or rather, it's a simple question to answer, but there are, it's multifaceted in its, in its answer. And I think, I think perhaps more broadly first, before I speak about Kyle and I's dynamic, I think what this show does, in my opinion, subjectively, so beautifully is it highlights us as a global community.
And it does so in a way that doesn't feel like a lecture. It doesn't feel like you're being, uh, imposed upon. Um, I think what it highlights is that our, our differences and our nuances need not be a point of contention.
They can be a point of education. They can be a point of insight. They can be a point of connectivity, connective tissue.
I think the show does that in a way that isn't didactic. And I think so far as it relates to Kylan and I's dynamic specifically, that's true as well in the, in the more micro sense. You know, that, that first one is more macro, how the season engages with that.
But I think, uh, in a more micro sense with Kylan and I, you know, Kylan and I couldn't be any more different, you know, it's, it's, they, they, they, they literally, and I think they did that intentionally, you know, they, you know, Kyle and I are from two different places in the world. We have two very different upbringings, two very different, uh, journeys. But that is, but what Kyle and I discovered instantly, but also, of course, on a much more deeper level throughout the six months that we were filming is that we have far more in common than anything else.
And anything else was just a point of excitement, you know, teach me about that. I want to learn about that. What was that like for you? How did that, how did that formulate your perspective on this, that, and the third? Um, we wanted to learn about each other.
We wanted to learn about, uh, each other's respective parts and learn that actually, again, there's far more connective tissue than anything else. Um, and as it related to the performances, I think, I think that was just imperative. I think it was critical because you know, this shoot was 116 days or something like that. These are 12, 14, maybe plus 14 plus hour days. You know, these are not short days. Yes.
The entire experience was joyful and beautiful, but, um, it required, it required a lot of focus because of the intensity of it. And, um, you know, we, we, we, we needed to be able to be vulnerable with each other. We needed to be able to be completely open and honest very quickly because one of the pillars of this show is our dynamic and our, uh, connection as characters and actors.
And if that fell flat or if that fell short, we were going to be in a lot of trouble. And I think um, you know, I think a credit to Kyle and, and, and, um, and, and both of us actually for being open to just being so exposed and vulnerable very early on to be able to access whatever we needed to for these characters within the context of the story. And, and also, you know, just the icing on the cake was just that we, we genuinely sincerely developed a friendship and a closeness, um, and a brotherhood that is not, it's not a given in these situations.
Um, you know, there are, there are times where that doesn't happen and you still have to get the work done and you will get the work done because you're a professional, but whenever you're gifted with what we were gifted with, which was a genuine connection and friendship, I mean, it's just heaven. And I think the reason I'm sort of going on and on on this first question is because I think I'm feeling quite emotional, to be honest with you, because seeing this release episodically, I've sort of been reliving it with the audiences and that eighth episode coming out, eighth and final episode coming out yesterday, just, just, I don't know, it just, I just sort of relived it. And, um, I don't know, I've said it a thousand times and I'll say it a thousand times more, everybody, every single person who had a hand in this show and every single department, like, you know, from, from the crafty to catering, transport, wardrobe, lighting, sound, every single, every single department, everyone gave everything. And we really were, we really were like a football team. We really were like a travelling company. And it, I think it, it demanded so much of every single department for that six months that we left, we left that first season being like, respectfully, what we, we actually, no matter what happens after this, we are so deeply proud of ourselves and our commitment to this project.
And we love it. And, uh, and, uh, just rewatching that, I just thought about, I just thought about so many people that we work with on this project. I just hope they're proud. I hope they're feeling like, yeah, we, I can't swear on this. I hope we did that. You know, I like that we did that, you know, I hope everyone's feeling proud and feeling a sense of real accomplishment because yes, yes, Kyle and I are, you know, our faces are in the world as it relates to lightings, but there is a, there is a village behind us and without that village, we, we couldn't have achieved a fraction of what we did.
So just, I don't know. I don't know if I'm even answering your question anymore, but for me, it's just like, it's just like, just shout out to the Lanterns team. I just hope they hope that, I hope they feel accomplishment.
Kyle: I don't think I need to add anything. I think he said it pretty damn well.
And yeah, we were, I guess I'll say two things. We were fortunate as two, two actors to come upon the material that, that we didn't have to do much to elevate. And the material was really well-crafted.
I mean, it was just a joy to do, literally. And the other thing is, after watching it this morning, there's something I, there's something that really struck me is the, is the, the last scene with Aaron and I in the show, because it, it is like, you know, when you win the state championship, your tears come to your eye because all the work that you put in slams into you at one moment, um, on the field. And, uh, and it happened to me this morning, watching it, uh, saying goodbye to him and the, and the whole thing.
And it, all of it, all of it really did compacted just a little shooting star. And, uh, and I did have to generally wipe away a tear. So my wife didn't make fun of me, but, um, it was like saying goodbye to a lot of old friends and a lot of great memories and a lot of experiences, uh, you know, temporarily until I think about them again.
And the other thing is just real quick, um, the father son aspect of this show, I think is for me, I lost my pop when I was 14 and it's just incredible. And, um, you know, uh, Hal had that going on with, uh, you know, with, uh, with John, that, that father son relationship, um, it, it, it became apparent while we were shooting it. And, um, uh, that, that wisdom and being able to give back a little bit and, uh, and yeah, so that love story is, he won my heart over in the end.
I was able to, to do what my father would have done for me.
The relationship that each version of Hal forms with John and the, how the past informs the present and the future. Um, you know, our primary Hal and the hologram are ultimately both elemental to the events of the season and the conclusion of the season.
And the hologram is still snarky, still dubious, but he's, you know, he's less cynical. He's less jaded. He's better able to open up, to offer praise, to offer affirmation. Of course we also, you know, we get to see our primary Hal in both the 2016 timeline and the 2026 timeline where across in 2026, just mere moments of screen time, we watch him experience a romance, a revelation, a tragedy. We also get to briefly see you embody him earlier in his, his, uh, tenure as Green Lantern Youth or newsreel, etc. So how rewarding was that for you creatively to get to portray that many different versions of Hal across just eight episodes of a season when for many actors, you would, you would just hope and dream to get to access that over years and years and years of, of a show.
Kyle: I'm sorry. I think you were on mute.
No, I'm just kidding. Um, uh, my, uh, I'll, I'll give, I'll give, I'll give an example. I think that'll sum up all of what you said, if I can.And that is in the final scene today, when I'm watching, uh, when I'm watching Hal, a hologram, um, and, uh, look at, at that point, I think it is, it's, it's, it's, it's Hal as a young man going through all those experiences and then finally learning in the end what it's all about. He could never pluck that string as Hal in the show, but as hologram, he learned with Hal and he could pluck the string.
That's how I sort of look at it. Like the two of them were never fully separated. He is his subconscious. So there's a lot to play with there, but when, and this goes, this goes to the writers and that, that's another reason why this all was seamlessly, because the trust that goes into the material, you don't have to think too hard on it. You trust the writing and it worked in this case every time. And so when, you know, here's what the writers do to make this all work for the actors in such a great way.
When Hal says, what was the last thing that Carrie said to me? And of course, you know, uh, you know what John says and then, then Hal says, I love you too. I mean, that just sums up, that sums up Hal. It sums up the twos, if you will, whole meshing together, mixing the two together.
When you were talking earlier about, about like the, the values and the moral compasses of the show, if you will, um, the goodness in the show, the doing the right thing in the show, it could get very, uh, it could get very over the top, but they never allowed it to, they just never allowed it to, but there are a lot of good things to be said in the show, uh, for, there are a lot of good things to be said in the show that I think are, if I may, relevant to today. Um, so there you go. I, uh, I love it.
Aaron, I wanted to ask you - this season, it delves into so many deeply internal and emotional elements as we've been talking about, you know, from what we fear to, to how we're raised to whether we're defined by, uh, other people or, or by our own intentions. And it's a story about choice and consequence and inherited trauma and missteps and second chances. And of course, as we hear so memorably at the end about not being afraid to be afraid.
Sometimes the need to really spotlight a hero's, uh, strength and mightiness can mean suppressing the elements that might play more tenderly that might unlock some of the stuff that we've been talking about and lanterns just really defies that impulse. And John's journey, then to becoming earth screen lantern is ultimately as much about his ability to grant forgiveness to others and to ask himself what he needs in order to live his life truthfully and fully as it is about his ability to solve a case, right.
Or, or fight an enemy. So John, in other words, is a hero who, who shows us that strength can come in the form of a tear or a hug or a quiet conversation is just as well as it can come from firing a bullseye shot. What kind of gift is that for you as an actor, that nuance and that complexity in the character and what did it mean to you to get to bring not just such a fully realised person, but hero to the screen?
Aaron: I, um, I think this was, I think, I think to, to call this opportunity to portray John Stewart, a gift, um, would be a massive understatement. Um, I said before, and you know, I'm going to repeat it now that if I had the choice today in the future or anytime in the past, you know, to portray any superhero, I would always choose John Stewart and season one of lanterns, uh, among other reasons, but speaking specifically about this season and how, you know, the, you know, Chris and Damon and Tom and all of the other creatives moulded this and put it together is one of the key foundation reasons. And it's because John, John was not born with superpowers.
You know, he is, he is just like any of us, you know? And I think that that is, but yet he is so mighty. And I think that is what, that is what appealed to me so much. The, the, the, and appeals to me is the, the, the constant opportunity in portraying him to excavate his humanity, to explore his humanity, to explore his flaws, to explore his shortcomings, to explore his learning moments.
That's what is so exciting to me. That's what energises me. And I think that's also what makes audiences resonate with him.
And in fact, I think resonate with the entire, you know, the entire Lambton course so far as it relates to John and Hal and Guy, you know? And, and, and, and I think I mentioned just those three episodes are the three we see in, in, in the context of this series. And I think one of my hopes from the very beginning that when I first got the opportunity to, to read, you know, the pilot, I was like, I really hope that folks watch this at home and they, and that they're so excited by it that they, they kind of almost are like, if I can just, if I can just figure out where to get my own application and maybe I can be a Lambton as well, maybe I can be part of the Green Lantern Corps. I think that's what it's, that's what it's about for me.
You know, I think, you know, what, what the writer's room did in, in, in moulding this season was, I mean, again, subjectively and maybe unbiased, you know, what I am, but I think, I think what those folks did was amazing. You know, like, I really think they just moulded this beautiful, beautiful first season, you know, episodes one to four, you know, we set the stage and episodes five to eight, it's like the game really begins, you know? And one of the, one of the greatest challenges for me actually was, and I wonder if I've still got my notes somewhere of how I was breaking this down, but was, Jon Stewart really appears from episode five through to eight. That's, that's John Stewart.
Episodes one to four, yes, he's technically John Stewart, but you had to figure out who the man was before he became the man. You know, Jon Stewart in five to eight is who we're gonna, who we're going to over the years become familiar with and connected with. That's, that's our John Stewart. That's, you know, whether that's in the DC cinematic universe or whatever it is, but I was like, who, who is the, who is the, who is the boy before he becomes the man? I had to sort of reverse engineering and that was really challenging as, as a task because everything in me when I'm reading episodes one to four, you know, as a Jon Stewart fan myself, I'm going, ah, Jon wouldn't have that. I'm like, I don't think, I don't think Jon would let that slide. I had to remember that, that, that's, that's the boy. That's not, that's not, that's not the man yet. Yeah. Yeah.
And I had to, and I had to really lean into that truth and that reality. Episodes one to four, he's, yes, he's had a wealth of experience within the context of life and, you know, the Marines and, you know, being an elite Marine sniper, of course, you know, but in terms of understanding what it is to be a hero, in terms of understanding what it is to be in the business of saving lives on the scale of being in the Green Lantern Corps, he's, he's green, no pun intended. You know what I mean? He's, he's green.
I think that, that was, that was really challenging, but also really rewarding because when episode five comes along, I felt like Jon had earned those moments, you know, and, and beyond, I felt like he had earned those moments of, of confidence. Those moments of being sure, assertive, being able to take educated risks, you know? So I think that, that it was just the really, it was just a massive gift for them to allow me to do that. And it was really fun.
Now that you've seen where Hal and Jon end up in the finale, is there an earlier scene, either between them or any scene that carries a different meaning for you? And what do you hope viewers notice about it on a rewatch? So basically, you know, the version of what you're saying, Aaron, about the, you know, the different places that we find these characters across the episodes and thus their life.
When, when fans of the show and viewers return to Lanterns now with the full context and clarity of where these characters wound up, which scene or moment are you hoping stands out to them in a new light? Is there something that pops to mind?
Aaron: I think, I think that's a, that's a, that's a fantastic question. I think the first thing I want to say is I'm really excited that people are even considering rewatching it because that's something we found when we, when we got to the end, we were like, I hope people will rewatch this. And I hope they see things that they didn't see before because they now have the full context.
But I think, I think for me, it's, um, one of the things I hope that people, uh, catch about Jon Stewart in one to four is, is this, it's, uh, I think just the, the, the very, the, is the conception of, of him, of him understanding how much he has to learn. I think that's what people, I hope people catch, you know, the conception of that, but him, but again, as it relates to the series and, and fear and all of this stuff, that is Jon's superpower. Jon's superpower, in my opinion, subjectively is not being fearless.
It's the ability to acknowledge, acknowledge fear and overcoming. And I think, I hope what people catch is in one to four, he sort of quietly, quite stoically accepts the fact, maybe he doesn't articulate it to half, but he's like, yeah, I'm not ready for the job yet. But he, but he leans into it so heavily.
He doesn't lean away from it. He doesn't lean away from it with arrogance or with this delusion. He leans into it and actively searches for ways to become everything he knows he can become.
If he just makes himself the student that absorbs versus, uh, deflecting when he doesn't know something.
Kyle, how about you?
I don't know what episode it was, but when Jon and I are travelling in the car and we have this long conversation, I think it's the second time I jump out of the car. Yeah. Do you know what I'm talking about? Oh yeah, sure. Yeah. Aaron, remember that night when we had to reshoot because of the lighting on the side of the mound of the wall and the dirt berm next to us and all, remember that long, all that driving? I do, I do, yeah.
Well, maybe you'll recall which episode exactly this is. It's episode four, episode four. Okay.
Yeah. So, um, this was a really, uh, it was a great, really great honest moment for me. That was very exciting to play.
There was none of the wonderful humour I got to do and the, this and that. It was just straight up real question, a real statement. When I said to him, I said, I really did trust you.
And that moment for me was like, uh, that was, there was a different moment in the show because I, I tried, I made it very real. I really did trust him. And, uh, that was kind of a great moment for me to fall back into, you know, it gave me a restart if you will.
That was a, that was a really, really, that was a great moment. I really liked that moment. And of course I liked the moment that it comes in the very end of the show, but when I, when I trick him into saying, I love you, I think that was just, I thought that was just brilliant, uh, that they wrote that for me.
Ah, yeah. That, that car ride is, is fantastic. That's a great pick for what plays on a rewatch because like you see where they end up and you see that the seeds of a genuine desire to connect actually were there, even though things went, went so wrong.
Aaron: You know, something funny about that is, um, that, that night was a long night that we did that scene. And just like, I mean, fun fact, maybe no one cares, but fun fact anyway, um, that night was really long and it was so long that eventually Kyle and I decided to just hang out in my trailer together. And, um, we just started watching, um, clips from the original Oliver Twist.
And so like, and like, despite how heavy that scene is, just know that we were watching musicals, that whole, that whole night shoot.
Kyle: That's true. He had me, he had me humming a particular song from that, that damn show.It lasted for weeks, I think.
The show has so many plot twists all through the season. How much did you both know in advance and how much did you learn with every new script? Which twist surprised you the most?
Kyle: I can't pick a twist that surprised me the most. I gotta be, I'll have to be really quite honest. It's been a year and some since we shot that and I just watched the final episode today and, and I was trying to catch up with all the twists and turns. There was a lot going on. Um, but, uh, um, uh, yeah, I think, I think once you found out the main question of, you know, how did, uh, how did Hal end up with a bullet in his head? That was, that was under everyone's, uh, uh, uh, microscope. So that was a big one, obviously. But I do want to say too, though, one thing I've not said during any of these interviews or these two that we've done, um, I want to say just a shout out and I'll speak for Aaron on this, but all the other actors, all the other actors and Kelly, Kelly was so good. She did such a great job with her part. But all the actors, Nathan and the whole—everyone did so good. So good, and everyone had so much fun and everyone was openhearted and ready to go. And so, anyway, you know, none of it works without the whole team, just like Aaron was saying. And of course, that wonderful world that all the people created, Karen Wacker and Chris Mundy, the world they created was so safe and it was, you know, it’s a play, they allowed us to play. So that really contributed to everything.
Something that Damon Lindelof has talked about a lot over the years is the idea that the most satisfying answer to a question is another person— you guys had the privilege of working with—as you just said, Kyle—so many wonderful performers and so many brilliant storytellers on this season, you know, from showrunner Chris Mundy and his co-creators, Tom King and Damon Lindelof, to writers like Justin Britt-Gibson and Vanessa Baden Kelly, to directors like Stephen Williams and Geeta Vasant Patel and James Hawes and Alik Sakharov, and just so many others. And I’m curious if there was any sort of creative insight or lesson or idea or worldview from a writer or a director or any creative stakeholder in the project in that, you know, “The greatest answer to a mystery is a person” mold that really impacted you?
Kyle Chandler: I’ll just jump in really quick and I’ll just put one word that encompasses everything that you just came up with, and it’s not a piece of advice or anything like it—trust. I mean, when a performer can go—when I can go, an actor, what have you—when a performer into a piece with trust, he can do anything, and he can give 110 percent because he’s got that trust. And that’s what they imbued us with, trust, kindness, respect, and respect, and the respect that they had for the actors. Forget about actors, the respect they have for people, as people. And I experienced this in a few different ways that were very important to me, and they are really—that’s it. They imbued that trust and that kindness and that love and that compassion and their intelligence. And, you know, as my dad used to say, they’re good people.
Aaron Pierre: 100 percent. I couldn’t agree more with what Kyle just said there, and I think that actually might be the first time I’ve heard what you just said there about how—I think you said the most interesting answer to a question is another person, is that what you said? I think that was really, in addition to what Kyle just mentioned, you know, trust being the first thing, you know, alongside just creating a safe environment, because creating a safe environment is key. It’s critical, you know, because that is only ever going to be conducive to people doing their best work, right, in every department.
So, alongside those pillars of approach to this season, that was also a key thing, that was a core thing, because this series categorically does not work if I as the actor or Kyle as the actor or any of us as actors make it about ourselves in the scene. Everything had to be about the other person. Otherwise, the whole thing just collapses in on itself, like a cake that you take out of the oven too early. It just, like—you know what I mean? It was like every time we were in a scene for these 116 days, you know, it was like, yes, do your work, you know, make your notes. You know, both Kyle and I, we, you know, we’re kind of obsessive with, like, the minutiae of things. So, of course, we do unnecessary homework and make notes and come prepared, obviously, you know. But as soon as all of that’s done and that’s sort of absorbed by osmosis or what have you, like, then everything—as far as I was concerned—everything had to be about Kyle. And then for Kyle, everything had to be about me, or whoever we were in the scene with, Kelly or Nathan. And all of a sudden, it becomes so much more interesting, because it’snot inwardly focused. And I think when you think of it like that, you realize how much—there’s so much more richness and so many more riches when you approach scene work that way. And that was a core pillar in—I’m pointing, sorry, I’m pointing at the TV because that’s what I watched it on yesterday—but, like, that was the core thing for Lanterns, you know. Everything had to be about the other person in the scene.
Like Watchmen, this show is a story about Black identity and political divisions in America. In your opinion, what makes Lanterns and superhero stories more broadly, particularly suited to exploring such themes?
Aaron: As it relates specifically to Lanterns, I don’t want to speak on any other superhero piece. I want to speak specifically about Lanterns. I think it goes back to the answer I gave to the first question. You know, I think Lanterns as a story, Lanterns as a creative team, what they did so beautifully and so masterfully is they create conversation. They create critical conversation, they create necessary conversation, and they give insight. They give insight to a number of perspectives, whether that’s John’s perspective, whether that’s Hal’s perspective, whether that’s John’s life experience, whether that’s Hal’s life experience. They give insight into a particular experience. And I think that does two things at the same time. It allows people whose experience that is, they feel seen, they feel heard, they feel understood, they feel respected. And to those whose experience it isn’t, it gives a number of beautiful access points to be able to empathize with it, to be able to understand it a little more. And I think that happens for both characters throughout the season, you know. I think it happens to both characters, and I think that’s what’s so special about the writers who came together to do this. They did it in a way that it didn’t feel like they were imposing themselves on anybody. It felt like an invitation to a conversation.
What has surprised you the most about the fan reaction to the show?
Kyle Chandler: I’m going to be honest real quick. I hear things—I don’t have social media. Literally nothing, I don’t go on it. However, I did get a video the other day of Aaron and I singing together, and I don’t know how they made this video, but it’s the funniest damn thing. try. I think it was on Instagram or something. My wife showed it to me, and I laughed my tail off. So, I haven’t seen much of it, but that’s something new for me, to see how the public takes these characters and appreciates them in different ways with some of the social media. I haven’t heard anything bad about the show at all.
I don’t know what’s out there. I’m sure there’s, you know, 50 percent/50 percent, but it’s been really joyous and everything I’ve heard has been positive. And I can watch the show and know what it is and I know what they did. And, as Aaron said earlier, I’m really, really grateful and proud to have been part of it, and, you know, thanks for giving me the humor to play with.
The entire first season of Lanterns is available now to stream on HBO Max.
